Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Discuss anything about DraStic here.
Ezequiel Gomes
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Ezequiel Gomes » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:50 pm

Summing up the conversation:

If the port was made for Windows Mobile 10 it would be bad, but with a little more effort could be better


Right?

Exophase
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Exophase » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:11 pm

Ezequiel Gomes wrote:Summing up the conversation:

If the port was made for Windows Mobile 10 it would be bad, but with a little more effort could be better


Right?
How can that really be answered when "bad" is totally subjective? If you don't care a lot about the GUI and the performance is enough for your device (let's say you don't care about hires rendering or maybe you're using a desktop class PC anyway) then a minimal effort port may not be so bad to you.

On the other hand, if you insist on a nice GUI optimized for the platform and you need the emulator to be much faster in x86 than it currently is then there's no way you could call it just a little more effort. That's a tremendous amount of effort.

Exophase
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Exophase » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:14 pm

So something I'm just now thinking of is that it's not like Windows 10 Mobile phones are running x86. What device are you interested in running on exactly?

Looking at some comments from PPSSPP developers here: https://github.com/hrydgard/ppsspp/issues/7854 A basic Windows Universal port sounds anything but trivial even for something really minimalistic. Would have to use new APIs, I don't think we can get SDL for it.

Ezequiel Gomes
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Ezequiel Gomes » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:21 pm

In my Lumia 535 running Windows Mobile 10, and you don't have to be a super quality, ONLY have the emulator is good

TkSilver
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by TkSilver » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:06 pm

Ezequiel Gomes wrote:In my Lumia 535 running Windows Mobile 10, and you don't have to be a super quality, ONLY have the emulator is good
Well on the plus side you are running an ARM processor. Though to be fair I am pretty sure almost all window phone devices are running snapdargon arm chipsets.

Snapdragon 200-8212 quad core 1.2GHz cortex-A7 processor with an Adreno 302 400MHz gpu. With 1 GB ram and 8GB internal storage

The largest selling WP world wide is the lumia 520

Snapdragon S4-8227 dual core 1GHz Krait processor with an Ardreno 305 gpu. 512 MB ram and 8GB internal storage.

In the US the largest WP is the lumia 635

Snapdragon 400-8226(or 8626) quad core 1.2GHz cortex-A7 processor with an Adreno 305 450MHz. 512 MB ram (the versions with 1GB ram were not released in the US though it is currently the cheapest 4G smartphone in India so it might sell more) 8GB internal storage.

These are the most common types of windows based smartphones and also the chipset for the lumia 535's chipset since that is what the OP uses.

Ezequiel Gomes
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Ezequiel Gomes » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:18 pm

Are you saying you wouldn't have enough to run the Windows smartphones Drastic right?

TkSilver
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by TkSilver » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:31 pm

Ezequiel Gomes wrote:Are you saying you wouldn't have enough to run the Windows smartphones Drastic right?
Nope simply listing stats of the most owned windows 10 devices currently since it matters for developers trying to decide if they want to support an OS. Same basic reason Valve has a list of most common hardware it's users use on steam.

As far as my opinion, if windpws had full dynamic code execution support (like android) then DraStic should run ok. Near full speed on most games non hi rez with little frame skip needed. High rez would either require higher frameskip o might even be unplayable though anyone with a moto e or moto g would be able to give real world examples of the snapdragon 200/400 respectively.

Ezequiel Gomes
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Ezequiel Gomes » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:44 pm

You're not confusing Windows Phone 8 with Windows Mobile 10? these lumias or were launched with that system, as can be the most used smartphone with W10?

TkSilver
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by TkSilver » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:40 am

Ezequiel Gomes wrote:You're not confusing Windows Phone 8 with Windows Mobile 10? these lumias or were launched with that system, as can be the most used smartphone with W10?
Each of those can be updated to 10. Your own 535 started out as a WP 8.1 device. Though to be fair windows 10 mobile is just a naming change it is for all intents and purposes windows phone 10. As far as the most owned windows smartphone WP8 WP8.1 and W10m included the lumia 520 has 24.5% or so of the current market.

For the 520 and the 635 Microsoft is releasing a slightly modified version of W10m since they only have 512MB of ram. Some features will not be included but unless Microsoft convinces owners to upgrade into newer (and possibly higher end) windows devices it really does not matter. If DraStic would require a feature those phones could not handle then the maxium customer base would be cut by 30+% which is also important infprmation for a developer to consider.

It would be like making an android app that could only run on 5.0 or higher. Then only 35.3% of all android devices could even run it. Or if you required openGl ES v3.0 then 53.2% of all android devices could not run it.

So the most used W10m phone really does not matter if it is not a large number of people. As of Q2 2015 only approximately 2.6% of smartphones were running any microsoft OS and as of December 2015 only 9% of windows mobile devices (phones) were running W10m. WP8.1 was the highest then WP8/7 were close to tied in 3rd and 4th.

Exophase
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Re: Windows 10 UNIVERSAL

Post by Exophase » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:23 am

I talked to Lordus and we went over some Windows tests he did a while ago (this would be plain desktop Windows). One issue is that on Windows the memory map allocation is limited to 64KB granularity, while we need 16KB granularity to map the DS's VRAM. It'll take some pretty serious hacks to try to work around this and it could have a performance impact. It's not an easy change.

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