Alternative distribution method

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Fefo
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby Fefo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:08 am

Can you speak about those anti-tamper trigger? Since it only manages to annoy legitimate customers, I find it reasonable.

I hated DRM even before it caused me any trouble, and after my Google account locked me outside I started to truly despise it. A waste of resources with minimal effect to those who it was made to block: either find a workaround or abandon it.

As for the topic, at least search for a place where it's easier to buy your app. Not everyone has a credit card; kids for example. They could be a huge part of your userbase, but will try to find a way thought paywalls as fast as they come across them.
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Exophase
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby Exophase » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:50 am

Fefo wrote:Can you speak about those anti-tamper trigger? Since it only manages to annoy legitimate customers, I find it reasonable.


Not sure what you're saying, do you mean it only manages to annoy illegitimate customers? Or that you find it unreasonable?

Anti-tamper means that the app doesn't take well to being modified. There isn't normally a good reason for a legitimate customer to modify the app.

Fefo wrote:I hated DRM even before it caused me any trouble, and after my Google account locked me outside I started to truly despise it. A waste of resources with minimal effect to those who it was made to block: either find a workaround or abandon it.


Why did your Google account lock you out?

We could argue about what effect it does or doesn't have, it's really hard to prove one way or the other what the impact is or isn't like. What I do know is that there are certainly tangible cases where people have used cracked versions without knowing it's a paid app, complained here about it not working properly (people who distribute cracked apps tend to just copy the info wholesale or even straight up tell others to e-mail us or post here for help), then bought it after being informed that it is in fact a paid app. Without some kind of protection in place there's no disincentive to stop people from reskinning the app and putting it up on other stores, even charging it, and people looking for DS emulators are none the wiser. For a lot of people this may sound great since it only hurts the developers who still end up having to shoulder requests for support from people who didn't pay while users benefit by getting the app for free or for less. But even they don't get the benefit of proper release control and updates and at least some people are cheated out of a desire to actually support the devs.

Fefo wrote:As for the topic, at least search for a place where it's easier to buy your app. Not everyone has a credit card; kids for example. They could be a huge part of your userbase, but will try to find a way thought paywalls as fast as they come across them.


Google Play gift cards or general pre-paid debit cards are an option for a lot of people who don't have/can't get credit cards. What other payment options would work? Sending cash? I'll make this much clear: anything that requires us to make our own licensing solution isn't going to happen. Anything that requires a significant amount of work to interface with another payment provider isn't going to happen. And anything that requires manual work on our part for every purchase (like processing cash orders) is not going to happen. If we're going to support anything else it has to be at least in the same ballpark of features and fidelity that Google Play has. If there's a huge untapped potential market in alternative distribution that also requires a huge amount of extra resources to get into then it's going to stay untapped, because we don't have the time, energy, or desire to mess with that.

I'm sorry if anyone feels tricked or misled by the LVL, if people feel that way they're welcome to a refund. That's especially true for people for whom the licensing fails or is broken somehow. I know that isn't 100% compensation for wasted time. But if people are angry about it and are making the reasonable choice not to buy the app because of it then I don't have as much sympathy for them (especially if they're trying out cracked ones instead), since we're not taking anything away from them.

I said earlier, but maybe the best alternative is something ad-supported (but not like the Chinese version, that brings in basically no money). That'd piss off another group of people entirely, of course. But something that anyone can easily throw on another repo and give away for free without any degradation in use isn't going to happen. I would literally sooner give the whole thing out for free myself than do that.
Fefo
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby Fefo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:48 pm

If you took my comment as harsh please don't, my english isn't polished enough to keep the discussion on a desirable level, which would allow me to expand on my moral reasoning. Then, this would be a highly pointless discussion, so let's forget it.

As for your answers:

1. I neither mind or expect the app to allow any modification, however I do expect to it work on my device once it's set up. I already created a topic before complaining about licence annoyances, which where triggered by messing up with my DPI. Internet isn't a given for me, so I want to know how to thread the minefield.

2. Password. Google gave me the "talk to the wall" treatment, and after weeks of problems I could fix it myself. What if I couldn't?

What you said latter is true, and reasonable. I would like to take a long discussion about "piracy" from there, but not now, not here and not in english :/

3. This was a unfair no-suggestion request. I certainly don't know and after all I bought it from Google, that's must answer you accordingly. What truly makes my blood boil sometimes is the "worthlessness" of my money. I have enough to buy your app, I have ten times that and would happily pay that much as I got every cent worth. However because I don't have a credit card and Google took eons to bring gift cards to Brasil I was a second grade customer, a pirate scum. I watch piracy news every day, and there are people who pay for VPN to acess paid services outside their country, and they are considered pirates. They pay twice, even more considering exchange rates and tax and they are scum. For bytes, which look the same on my computer, on yours, underwater, on the moon. I hate this. I hate the state of digital distribution nowdays, mostly tied to services which can kick you out because. I hate DRM, which can range from a minor "who are you?" to poor, dangerous, malicious software. And I hate seeing what I want tied to this, and my money validating this market.

Like I said, this discussion exists on a vacuum. Absorb what you find valuable, ignore whatever else and live on. I hope that at least you can understand the general direction of my ramblings. Rock on and be attitude for gains.
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TkSilver
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby TkSilver » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:17 pm

Fefo wrote:3. This was a unfair no-suggestion request. I certainly don't know and after all I bought it from Google, that's must answer you accordingly. What truly makes my blood boil sometimes is the "worthlessness" of my money. I have enough to buy your app, I have ten times that and would happily pay that much as I got every cent worth. However because I don't have a credit card and Google took eons to bring gift cards to Brasil I was a second grade customer, a pirate scum. I watch piracy news every day, and there are people who pay for VPN to acess paid services outside their country, and they are considered pirates. They pay twice, even more considering exchange rates and tax and they are scum. For bytes, which look the same on my computer, on yours, underwater, on the moon. I hate this. I hate the state of digital distribution nowdays, mostly tied to services which can kick you out because. I hate DRM, which can range from a minor "who are you?" to poor, dangerous, malicious software. And I hate seeing what I want tied to this, and my money validating this market.


I do agree that the state of digital distribution has major issues. Some of them are ones you have mentioned. The fact that the internet is truly global while companies are only multinational causes issues like the ones you have stated. There are also issues of different stores for different countries due to regulations imposed by different countries. (See Playstation store/netflix/apple app store) Personally speaking I do not know of people who see others using vpn networks or importing gift cards as pirates. In fact I have even used my connection in the US to create accounts for people and I have a few Korean and Japanese accounts myself.

Here is the thing though while you can complain to individual app developers, if you feel this strongly then really you should complain to google. Better yet, inform others about the issues google has in other countries to gain a voice strong enough they have to listen. The best idea of all is to work to find a way to provide what it is you want. Work with others and make your own app store since android is opensource you can do that. You might have to offer drm if you want to be able to offer the same kind of apps that the google play store offers though since ppl have just as much a right to believe in drm as you have to dislike it.
SalieriC
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby SalieriC » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:00 am

WTF did just happened here? I wanted the DraStic developers to research for another way for me to throw my money at them and it turned into an epic discussion about DRM, VPN, money and national restriction issues. As interesting as it is and as much as I would have to say about it: please stop. I think the forum for a more or less unimportant android app is neither the right place to discuss it nor is it likely to be heard here. There are organizations which get things done and which have the right places to offer. Anonymous or FFTF come to mind.
But here I'm happy w/ Exos promise to look into it.

And a final word about the whole "is DRM good or bad" matter: We all know, that there are ways to get paid apps for free. We all know that there are ways, even w/o modifying the .apk. Everyone who denies this is ignorant. But here we are not talking about a multi-million dollar developer team. We are talkingh about a small team (am i right?) which found a niche and tries to make a living. And they are looking for the best possible solution to make everyone happy w/o putting a lot of effort in it. Personally I would then offer it for free and ask for donations. But if they see LVL as the only option then who are we to judge?

About a commercially financed version: If this is the only option to get DrasTic w/ all the functions and w/o google then I'm in. I would even donate you a small sum for making such a version if the ads were neither flashy nor pornographic.
acid
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby acid » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:40 am

SalieriC wrote:WTF did just happened here? I wanted the DraStic developers to research for another way for me to throw my money at them and it turned into an epic discussion about DRM, VPN, money and national restriction issues. As interesting as it is and as much as I would have to say about it: please stop. I think the forum for a more or less unimportant android app is neither the right place to discuss it nor is it likely to be heard here. There are organizations which get things done and which have the right places to offer. Anonymous or FFTF come to mind.
But here I'm happy w/ Exos promise to look into it.

And a final word about the whole "is DRM good or bad" matter: We all know, that there are ways to get paid apps for free. We all know that there are ways, even w/o modifying the .apk. Everyone who denies this is ignorant. But here we are not talking about a multi-million dollar developer team. We are talkingh about a small team (am i right?) which found a niche and tries to make a living. And they are looking for the best possible solution to make everyone happy w/o putting a lot of effort in it. Personally I would then offer it for free and ask for donations. But if they see LVL as the only option then who are we to judge?

About a commercially financed version: If this is the only option to get DrasTic w/ all the functions and w/o google then I'm in. I would even donate you a small sum for making such a version if the ads were neither flashy nor pornographic.


Actually Drastic has reached over 500.000 sales on the play store alone. At 5 euros, it must have made quite a bit of money. And keep in mind the price was higher when it came out. I think I paid like 7 or 8 euros when it was released in 2013. They're probably OK and not struggling like your post implies. That said, that success is completely deserved, since the sofware is amazing. The way I see it, you're the one who has to make a decision here. Either buy it on google play or don't.
Jay Haru
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby Jay Haru » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:47 am

acid wrote:
SalieriC wrote:WTF did just happened here? I wanted the DraStic developers to research for another way for me to throw my money at them and it turned into an epic discussion about DRM, VPN, money and national restriction issues. As interesting as it is and as much as I would have to say about it: please stop. I think the forum for a more or less unimportant android app is neither the right place to discuss it nor is it likely to be heard here. There are organizations which get things done and which have the right places to offer. Anonymous or FFTF come to mind.
But here I'm happy w/ Exos promise to look into it.

And a final word about the whole "is DRM good or bad" matter: We all know, that there are ways to get paid apps for free. We all know that there are ways, even w/o modifying the .apk. Everyone who denies this is ignorant. But here we are not talking about a multi-million dollar developer team. We are talkingh about a small team (am i right?) which found a niche and tries to make a living. And they are looking for the best possible solution to make everyone happy w/o putting a lot of effort in it. Personally I would then offer it for free and ask for donations. But if they see LVL as the only option then who are we to judge?

About a commercially financed version: If this is the only option to get DrasTic w/ all the functions and w/o google then I'm in. I would even donate you a small sum for making such a version if the ads were neither flashy nor pornographic.


Actually Drastic has reached over 500.000 sales on the play store alone. At 5 euros, it must have made quite a bit of money. And keep in mind the price was higher when it came out. I think I paid like 7 or 8 euros when it was released in 2013. They're probably OK and not struggling like your post implies. That said, that success is completely deserved, since the sofware is amazing. The way I see it, you're the one who has to make a decision here. Either buy it on google play or don't.

its actually 500000 downloads... i think it counts single purchase, multi-device download as multiple, not single.
not that it matters tho but yeah... i wont add any opinion as theres enuf of a minefield here to start ww3.
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Xbox4201954
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby Xbox4201954 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:13 pm

Why cant we just sell it on the site so users have to allow installation from unknown sources. If what i said is stupid exuse what I posted
SalieriC
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby SalieriC » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:09 am

Since I feel like playing NDS games once again, I just wanted to renew my question. I would really love to buy this emulator. Please let me buy it! There has to be a way to do this without Google. I'd pay you up front via PayPal if necessary. Just, please with icing on top, let me buy it. :-D
Seriously, can we find an agreement?
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dsattorney
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Re: Alternative distribution method

Postby dsattorney » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:26 pm

Do you realize that you are necroposting? Please don't do it again.
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