Eric and Huckelberrypie Discuss Nintendo's corporate nature

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Eric and Huckelberrypie Discuss Nintendo's corporate nature

Postby huckleberrypie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:26 pm

ericbazinga wrote:
huckleberrypie wrote:Wouldn't filing a DMCA report work? Like, show Google some concrete evidence e.g. hex comparisons, IDA stuff, etc. proving that the rip-off is based on your work.

Oh, wait, looks like you seem to have ruled that out, but given how Sony lost a case versus Bleem I don't think you'd be on shaky ground with the report. You didn't include any copyright-infringing code in your app, but I'm no lawyer so I can't vouch for that.

If DMCA's worked, then all the Pokemon ripoff games on Google Play that I reported for using Pokemon characters without permission (And not giving two fucks about copyright, running YouTube ads willy-nilly and pretty much asking to be sued) should have been burned to the ground by Nintendo. I hate how Nintendo will take down literally every Pokemon fan game ever (even if it doesn't even feature actual Pokemon and just uses the title), but doesn't give a shit about literal Pokemon ripoffs that steal pretty much everything but the title.

This, very much this. Nintendo has a penchant for witch hunting the living daylights out of fan works and yet when well-meaning people try to report cases that do deserve to be hammered, they simply turn a deaf ear. Like faux emulator scams for example, e.g. a supposed 3DS emulator. The Big N could've had the domain seized if they really are that zealous, but nooo.

'Tis why I'd love to hate the company for what it's worth.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby ericbazinga » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:45 am

huckleberrypie wrote:This, very much this. Nintendo has a penchant for witch hunting the living daylights out of fan works and yet when well-meaning people try to report cases that do deserve to be hammered, they simply turn a deaf ear. Like faux emulator scams for example, e.g. a supposed 3DS emulator. The Big N could've had the domain seized if they really are that zealous, but nooo.

'Tis why I'd love to hate the company for what it's worth.

Oh, trust me. There are MANY issues with Nintendo's legal department. Their YouTube policy is a complete joke, flagging a video for using pretty much any Nintendo sound ever (and missing out on TONS of free advertising in the process), not to mention the aforementioned takedowns of fan games. It sucks how it's pretty much legally impossible to celebrate Nintendo as a company. Last time I checked, other companies were MUCH more lenient when it comes to copyright. I remember there was this one guy named Christian Whitehead who made an unofficial Android port of Sonic CD. You wanna know what Sega did? They HIRED him. He makes official mobile ports of classic Sonic games now. If Nintendo did that, they'd have more passionate developers than they'd know what to do with. And they're too busy taking down insert-fangame-here to realize that.
All in all, Nintendo may have amazing games, but they need to learn to work better with their fanbase.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby huckleberrypie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:02 am

ericbazinga wrote:Oh, trust me. There are MANY issues with Nintendo's legal department. Their YouTube policy is a complete joke, flagging a video for using pretty much any Nintendo sound ever (and missing out on TONS of free advertising in the process), not to mention the aforementioned takedowns of fan games. It sucks how it's pretty much legally impossible to celebrate Nintendo as a company. Last time I checked, other companies were MUCH more lenient when it comes to copyright. I remember there was this one guy named Christian Whitehead who made an unofficial Android port of Sonic CD. You wanna know what Sega did? They HIRED him. He makes official mobile ports of classic Sonic games now. If Nintendo did that, they'd have more passionate developers than they'd know what to do with. And they're too busy taking down insert-fangame-here to realize that.
All in all, Nintendo may have amazing games, but they need to learn to work better with their fanbase.

They are basically drinking way too much sake. Especially Miyamoto who allegedly made enemies out of third party developers. One ex-Nintendo employee feared that this could lead Nintendo to the same misfortune as Sega or Atari, restructuring to a mere shadow of itself.

Valve made a name for itself by encouraging fan works, even those that go up and beyond what they themselves have even envisioned like the Black Mesa fan remake. With Nintendo's logic, it would fall victim to their draconian witchhunts, but Valve knows how to relate to their fans and as such, the project was given a green light. A similarly backwards way of thinking was done by Mattel with American Girl as of late - boneheaded decisions like permanently-stitched undies and cheaper build quality basically earned them the ire of the community, and they had the nerve to talk down to them as if they were right.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby ericbazinga » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:09 pm

huckleberrypie wrote:They are basically drinking way too much sake. Especially Miyamoto who allegedly made enemies out of third party developers. One ex-Nintendo employee feared that this could lead Nintendo to the same misfortune as Sega or Atari, restructuring to a mere shadow of itself.

Valve made a name for itself by encouraging fan works, even those that go up and beyond what they themselves have even envisioned like the Black Mesa fan remake. With Nintendo's logic, it would fall victim to their draconian witchhunts, but Valve knows how to relate to their fans and as such, the project was given a green light. A similarly backwards way of thinking was done by Mattel with American Girl as of late - boneheaded decisions like permanently-stitched undies and cheaper build quality basically earned them the ire of the community, and they had the nerve to talk down to them as if they were right.

As much as I care about American Girl dolls (I don't, sorry), you're right. They don't really get along well with third parties, do they? I mean, sure, Nintendo has third party developers up the wazoo for the 3DS, but the Wii U is a ghost town, pretty much relying on Nintendo's (admittedly amazing) first-party games to keep the system afloat until there was so little support that they had to just let it sink. Granted, the Wii U having less horsepower than the PS4 or Xbox One dug the Wii U's grave before it even launched, but I'm sure that if Nintendo was nicer to developers, they could have seen less graphically demanding titles being ported to the Wii U. Instead, they fuck themselves over and end up with a console that tried, and failed, to be successful. And even the Switch looks like it could fall into the same pit. I mean sure, the concept is great- Triple-A console games, with you wherever you go- but I haven't exactly seen developers announcing games for this. I mean sure, there was that big developers conference back in January, where they announced games like FIFA and Skyrim, and gave us a big list of developers, but the Wii U got stuff like that at launch before people realized it was doomed- Call of Duty, Madden and FIFA, and even a Deus Ex game. And then what? Nothing. The fact that there's developers at the beginning of a console's lifespan doesn't mean they're sticking around until the end. Who knows, maybe they will, but history has proven time and again that whoever has the most powerful console is king. And Nintendo's the kid in the corner who's innovating, but not getting more powerful. The fact that the Switch isn't much more powerful than the Wii U doesn't help in the slightest. And I'm worried that Nintendo's outlook on developers is keeping developers from announcing games that WOULD run on Switch. About an hour ago I saw a trailer for a game called "The Disney Afternoon Collection", which is a collection of classic Disney NES games like DuckTales and Rescue Rangers. They announced versions for everything except Switch- which baffles me since not only would it be PERFECT for Switch, Disney has made several 3DS and Wii U games in the past. Are they abandoning Nintendo? Don't ask me, but I'm worried here. Despite its flaws, I'll never stop loving Nintendo, and I don't want them to go away anytime soon.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby huckleberrypie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:57 pm

Yeah, I know you don't care about AG, but it's their callous approach towards their fans as of late that's making them no better off than what Nintendo's been doing. Accusing a toy collector of lying when the company is confronted about an issue is no way to respond to criticism. I heard that you can't put up a fan convention on American Girl without Mattel's lawyers going bonkers, and at one point a collector's site was advised against making a book about the series due to the very same reason why Nintendo is loathed.

And yes, Nintendo has once again sank the Titanic, figuratively speaking. Ever notice how almost all of the company's consoles had their in-house properties as their best-selling game? Goes to show how they are very much reliant on fanboys and on Mickey Mousing (i.e. zealously holding to their mascots just as how Disney is having a tight rein on Mickey) to keep themselves afloat. And it can be traced all the way back to the NES when they came up with this licencing policy. Ostensibly, this was to keep less-scrupulous developers from flooding the library with shovelware by certifying that the game is up to standard, but in practise this led to a rift with third-parties - some came up with shell companies (and a paper thin disguise at that imo) to get around the publishing restrictions, while others, such as Color Dreams, simply flaunted the 10NES and voltage-spiked their way through. Interestingly enough, while Nintendo has sued a number of unlicensed developers before, they couldn't muster doing so with Color Dreams' subsidiary Wisdom Tree, fearing that filing a case against a Christian video game studio would give them a bad name with parents especially those in the Bible Belt or conservative circles.

Eh, as interesting as this discussion sounds I think we need to have this spun off to a new thread.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby ericbazinga » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:17 pm

huckleberrypie wrote:Yeah, I know you don't care about AG, but it's their callous approach towards their fans as of late that's making them no better off than what Nintendo's been doing. Accusing a toy collector of lying when the company is confronted about an issue is no way to respond to criticism. I heard that you can't put up a fan convention on American Girl without Mattel's lawyers going bonkers, and at one point a collector's site was advised against making a book about the series due to the very same reason why Nintendo is loathed.

And yes, Nintendo has once again sank the Titanic, figuratively speaking. Ever notice how almost all of the company's consoles had their in-house properties as their best-selling game? Goes to show how they are very much reliant on fanboys and on Mickey Mousing (i.e. zealously holding to their mascots just as how Disney is having a tight rein on Mickey) to keep themselves afloat. And it can be traced all the way back to the NES when they came up with this licencing policy. Ostensibly, this was to keep less-scrupulous developers from flooding the library with shovelware by certifying that the game is up to standard, but in practise this led to a rift with third-parties - some came up with shell companies (and a paper thin disguise at that imo) to get around the publishing restrictions, while others, such as Color Dreams, simply flaunted the 10NES and voltage-spiked their way through. Interestingly enough, while Nintendo has sued a number of unlicensed developers before, they couldn't muster doing so with Color Dreams' subsidiary Wisdom Tree, fearing that filing a case against a Christian video game studio would give them a bad name with parents especially those in the Bible Belt or conservative circles.

Eh, as interesting as this discussion sounds I think we need to have this spun off to a new thread.

Yeah, this really should be its own thread. Seeing as neither of us can do it, can Jay or Exo take care of it, please?

I'm surprised that Nintendo still isn't as hard on shovelware. I mean, who knows how much Wii shovelware there is? I remember that my sister had this shitty Barbie platformer game. It was 2D, really boring, and felt like it belonged on the Super Nintendo. She played it once and never touched it again.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby huckleberrypie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:54 pm

ericbazinga wrote:
huckleberrypie wrote:Yeah, I know you don't care about AG, but it's their callous approach towards their fans as of late that's making them no better off than what Nintendo's been doing. Accusing a toy collector of lying when the company is confronted about an issue is no way to respond to criticism. I heard that you can't put up a fan convention on American Girl without Mattel's lawyers going bonkers, and at one point a collector's site was advised against making a book about the series due to the very same reason why Nintendo is loathed.

And yes, Nintendo has once again sank the Titanic, figuratively speaking. Ever notice how almost all of the company's consoles had their in-house properties as their best-selling game? Goes to show how they are very much reliant on fanboys and on Mickey Mousing (i.e. zealously holding to their mascots just as how Disney is having a tight rein on Mickey) to keep themselves afloat. And it can be traced all the way back to the NES when they came up with this licencing policy. Ostensibly, this was to keep less-scrupulous developers from flooding the library with shovelware by certifying that the game is up to standard, but in practise this led to a rift with third-parties - some came up with shell companies (and a paper thin disguise at that imo) to get around the publishing restrictions, while others, such as Color Dreams, simply flaunted the 10NES and voltage-spiked their way through. Interestingly enough, while Nintendo has sued a number of unlicensed developers before, they couldn't muster doing so with Color Dreams' subsidiary Wisdom Tree, fearing that filing a case against a Christian video game studio would give them a bad name with parents especially those in the Bible Belt or conservative circles.

Eh, as interesting as this discussion sounds I think we need to have this spun off to a new thread.

Yeah, this really should be its own thread. Seeing as neither of us can do it, can Jay or Exo take care of it, please?

I'm surprised that Nintendo still isn't as hard on shovelware. I mean, who knows how much Wii shovelware there is? I remember that my sister had this shitty Barbie platformer game. It was 2D, really boring, and felt like it belonged on the Super Nintendo. She played it once and never touched it again.

True that mate, and yes it's quite ironic that Nintendo would let such crap slide even when they had a history of (supposedly) keeping tabs on the quality of games released on their platforms.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby TkSilver » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:25 pm

ericbazinga wrote:Yeah, this really should be its own thread. Seeing as neither of us can do it, can Jay or Exo take care of it, please?


I will just assume you simply forgot about me. *single tear of loneliness

Edit:

To add to the discussion *kind of* Nintendo's DMCA stance on fan works and Youtube content (from let's plays to even legitimate news coverage) is the main deciding factor as to why I still do not own a 3DS, Wii-U or Switch despite owning every Nintendo console and handheld made by them prior (and yes that includes a Virtual Boy). I survived the 3rd party revolt from the SNES era to the N64 Era, I excused the cash grab that was the E-reader (Amiibo 1.0), and I even survived the avalanche of Wii shovel-ware. But enough was finally enough. I am still not sure if i will continue to patronize Nintendo systems or if I will just complete my classic (is it ok to consider Wii and DS as classic) collection and wash my hands at that.
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Re: Eric and Huckelberrypie Discus Nintendo's corporate nature

Postby huckleberrypie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:24 pm

TkSilver wrote:
ericbazinga wrote:Yeah, this really should be its own thread. Seeing as neither of us can do it, can Jay or Exo take care of it, please?


I will just assume you simply forgot about me. *single tear of loneliness

Edit:

To add to the discussion *kind of* Nintendo's DMCA stance on fan works and Youtube content (from let's plays to even legitimate news coverage) is the main deciding factor as to why I still do not own a 3DS, Wii-U or Switch despite owning every Nintendo console and handheld made by them prior (and yes that includes a Virtual Boy). I survived the 3rd party revolt from the SNES era to the N64 Era, I excused the cash grab that was the E-reader (Amiibo 1.0), and I even survived the avalanche of Wii shovel-ware. But enough was finally enough. I am still not sure if i will continue to patronize Nintendo systems or if I will just complete my classic (is it ok to consider Wii and DS as classic) collection and wash my hands at that.


Lol sorry if I didn't think of you, I simply didn't realise you're a moderator as well. And yes, continuing on with my comparisons with American Girl, it's why some have chosen to either jump ship to other lines, like Battat/Our Generation, or any of those startups that sprang up lately to cash in on the success of those doppelganger or generic, customisable companion dolls, or simply call it quits and settle with the oldschool stuff produced by American Girl prior to the Mattel takeover. Same with Harley-Davidson - some bikers are salty at the Twin Cam being (allegedly) unreliable and would swear by their carburetted Evos or Shovelheads instead. Mostly because these firms wouldn't listen and just pander to either the base or their investors. It's why going public isn't necessarily a good thing for a company - wonder if this accounted for SC Johnson still being private?

The fact that even good-faith use of Nintendo properties is suppressed goes to show how Nintendo gained a hatedom, and I'm surprised as there are still those who are immensely loyal to them despite the company figuratively stabbing them in the back. Why on earth would you play the copyright card even if it's just for a fair mention of a brand? Is this infringement to you? Maybe all of us should be jailed for posting a cover of a One Direction song or perhaps even Happy Birthday. Doing a latter-day version of the Salem Witch Hunts is bonkers, plain and simple. Not only did you stifle creativity for what is essentially a tribute to a gaming icon, you also created your own enemies by way of Sony for one. Perhaps Journey band members could've sued Arnel Pineda for posting covers of their songs on YouTube with that imbecilic logic.

For now I doubt that I'd spend PHP27000 on a Switch when I'm fine with an average Android tablet or a PC, and neither am I going to buy a brand new doll unless AG or Nintendo decides to suck it up and clean up their act. With all the legacy they gained for making something seminal and well-received, I really don't know why they would risk losing their customer base for a boneheaded move or two.
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Re: DraStic DS Emulator rip-off?

Postby ericbazinga » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:42 pm

TkSilver wrote:
ericbazinga wrote:Yeah, this really should be its own thread. Seeing as neither of us can do it, can Jay or Exo take care of it, please?

I will just assume you simply forgot about me. *single tear of loneliness

Well, I appreciate you moving everything to a separate thread for us. (I mean, you misspelled "discuss", but I still appreciate it nonetheless.) Like Huckleberrypie (maybe we should come up with a nickname for her, her full name is pretty long), I guess I forgot you were a mod too. It's not obvious, you're not the emulator developer like Exo or have the green moderator coloring (or ban hammer pic) like Jay.
huckleberrypie wrote:The fact that even good-faith use of Nintendo properties is suppressed goes to show how Nintendo gained a hatedom, and I'm surprised as there are still those who are immensely loyal to them despite the company figuratively stabbing them in the back. Why on earth would you play the copyright card even if it's just for a fair mention of a brand? Is this infringement to you? Maybe all of us should be jailed for posting a cover of a One Direction song or perhaps even Happy Birthday. Doing a latter-day version of the Salem Witch Hunts is bonkers, plain and simple. Not only did you stifle creativity for what is essentially a tribute to a gaming icon, you also created your own enemies by way of Sony for one. Perhaps Journey band members could've sued Arnel Pineda for posting covers of their songs on YouTube with that imbecilic logic.

For now I doubt that I'd spend PHP27000 on a Switch when I'm fine with an average Android tablet or a PC, and neither am I going to buy a brand new doll unless AG or Nintendo decides to suck it up and clean up their act. With all the legacy they gained for making something seminal and well-received, I really don't know why they would risk losing their customer base for a boneheaded move or two.

*Sits in the corner feeling a little ashamed that I'm immensely loyal to Nintendo*
To be fair, Nintendo did make up most of my childhood. (Well, Nintendo and SpongeBob.) As much as I hate Nintendo's legal decisions, at the end of the day I love them as a company. Sure, their YouTube policy is shit and they don't really get any big third-party games, but it's not gonna stop me from loving them.
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